Skills Provision: Our Online Journey- Ep 5


Hello and welcome to the Skills Provision podcast. On today's episode, we are going a bit back in time talking about the history of Skills Provision, the journey we're on and where we believe we're we are heading towards becoming the world's first international employment network. On today's podcast is myself, Francesca, and also have Pete joining today. Hi, Francesca. Hi everyone. So, first of all, where did it all begin? Now Pete, you've been here since daydot I'll let you lead off on this one. Where did skills provision come from? Right. Good morning, Francesca. Before starting, I would like to ask all our listeners to like share and subscribe to this podcast. It help greatly. Thank you very much. So, on to the history. Yes, I've been here from the start and it's been an interesting journey. So, Chris Ley, a former Salmon factory owner and corporate banker, was involved in the funding of the Channel Tunnel formed Skills Provision in 2005. He had a vision to utilize the power of the web to support employment around the world. Skills now has a presence in 230 countries. There we go. That was the start line and then we've sort of kicked on from there with various websites, various landing pages, various systems where we are at today which is probably a in the middle ground of moving from being an agency to a network which will take many years for the full changeover to take effect on the international website. Different on the British European southwest of England and Polish landing pages that we have. So that's a bit about the history. Okay. And so I believe my understanding is that the reason for kind of starting things is because there have been manpower shortages experienced within his own business and so kind of saw, well, let's see, how can I sort this problem? And then from a technology point of view, that has very much been driven by yourself. Because if anyone knows Chris great ideas, but is not necessarily someone that's come from that online background, whereas you have gone and done a lot of research and education of yourself in order to lead and kind of promote the development of the skills provision online empire. Would that be a fair statement to make, do you think? Yes, very much so. Yes. Chris is very good on the ideas business as a whole. A fantastic person to advise and support us all really on the journey, but less understanding of the modern world, the digital world, the high tech, the apps, the videos and such like, we'll give it a go. It's not his strength and he doesn't portray that to be, but it does help the rest of us on our journey forward. And in a business, you're going to have different strengths and weaknesses and it's important about utilizing those in the correct way and getting things to move forward. So, a question I'm sure listeners out there are kind of thinking to themselves we've kind of said, and in my opening statement, that discussing how skills provision is heading towards becoming an international employment network. Now I'm going to say my viewpoint on what I think an international employment network means and then Pete can offer his kind of standpoint on it. But the network we see, or I believe that is being developed is a place where employers, job seekers, recruiters, is connecting everyone. Kind of like I suppose social media does in a way. But it's creating a place where there is no hierarchy and that certain people hold the power, whether that be the employers with the job offers, candidates with their availability, trying to create an area for everyone whereby connecting all those involved in the whole employment process. And as Pete said, it's on an international scale is what we're looking to do to remove the whole dynamic that is currently in place where certain people hold more of the power. Wanting to give equal opportunities to the masses and allowing them the best access that they can have to either job seekers with jobs or employers with candidates. Do you think that's a fair interpretation? It's an interpretation whether it's fair or not, I don't think it probably not deep enough, to be honest. It touches on some of the main aspects problem that we have in the world today and we are international business is the starting point. Get the start wrong as you know yourself and it can become problematic thereafter. So what we're looking to do is to use real life education data and a support network to start off in schools so those in their last year producing profiles being taught, having the ability to proceed on some of the courses that we're going to be running to prepare themselves in preparation, could be, do I really want to go to university? Is there a cost to go into university? How will that affect me in later life? What are my options, what are my strengths and where are my best position and who is interested in employment or possibly employment? So it's understanding the job market or having an understanding of the job market before you enter the market. Then as you can move from leaving school into the employment sector, supporting those at the beginning through their journey through education, development, training, having mentors, doing courses either government sponsored, employer sponsored, or by the individual, and then progressing on and on and then into management, possibly business ownership. So the network really will encompass everything that is needed. So it's obviously a vast undertaking and will be there in all elements of the beginning, the middle and the end. Also we'll provide support from different places like pensions. We will touch on financials. English is a big one in our current format in the international language, so being able to improve the level of English spoken, written awareness, health, safety, environmental teamwork, multiculturalism, working with other people from other areas. So just is this sort of let's just call it old development. The network allows for development from the very start to the very end and plays a supporting role throughout. It's a journey. It's a journey that's the concept to take people on their journey from start to finish, utilizing the power of the web. So really taking what Chris's idea was, which was employment, given a fair crack of the whip to everyone and expanding on that quite dramatically until we become as a term that I've heard you say before, a ONESHOP one shop, everything yes, wanting to become effectively, I suppose, a marketplace really, isn't it? Where people can come and get what they want and it may be, yes, an employer wanting recruitment support or it could be, yes, a worker that's looking, look, I'm wanting to improve my prospects of being employed. What courses could I do? English or health and safety course or something like that. Giving more than just what I suppose many businesses do to one area where they focus on one part we're trying to kind of offer that everything you can want and more, all under one kind of roof. I suppose the biggest problem that I see within the marketplace is the lack of preparation. And it's just mainly just that, the lack of preparation being ready. So the employer knows fine well that in some stage they're going to need more manpower or they possibly may require more manpower. So what do they do? They wait right up until the last minute where we've now got the funding in place or we're ready to move, let's get the manpower. And it all becomes a bit of a rush. The agencies are put under pressure to deliver quickly and who's available at that moment in time, at what skill level and the diversity of skills. And a lot of things come in there where if preparation was carried out correctly and the employers were more aware of the marketplace, more aware of who was available and when, they can time their entry a lot better. And same with the job seekers being prepared for the next stage, the next job, the next bit of education. It all comes almost like they act when they need to act. It's reactive, not proactive. Which is something you're always hammering home about. The fact that trying to foresee as best you can. Because obviously we appreciate there are certain factors, say, like COVID, for example, where no one could have ever really preempted something like that. But being in that mindset, that to be the best version of either oneself, the company self. Being to the level of preparedness, I suppose. Yes. Having the ability to view life through the eyes of other people rather than self. Agencies, another part of the network. Agencies are generally insular, so recruitment agencies, which we are, but we're migrating away from our insular entities for money and the vision we have is to be something much wider, bigger and less biased on selfishness giving to the community, assisting the community. As long as they are willing to help themselves, which is a massive part of this, then we will provide the tools they will provide themselves or their businesses. Yeah. There's an element of buy in, isn't there, for any of these sort of things or anyone to help anyone? People have got to help themselves to an extent. Very much so, yes. And that is something that goes wider than a single organization such as ourselves can do, isn't it? It's about changing the mentality and trying to think what they're breaking boundaries, breaking barriers, I suppose, is the kind of thing you're trying to disrupt, I suppose, is the best way. What is the normal practice, I suppose, that leads with yes, disruptive technology, a new term utilized from modern technology, where basic simplicity can become so powerful. So ideas were at one time would be laughable and then all of a sudden world beaters. So getting people to use their car as a taxi only by mind blowing in complexity, that is Uber Lyft and such like, and using your property to rent out a room or the property itself. Airbnb. Yes. So in simplicity, with these, disruptive technologies can become a very powerful tool. So having an employment network isn't really intellectually mind blowing when you consider big, but when you consider the concept of it, it's very basic. Yes. And that's what it needs to be. We're not reinventing the wheel, we're just adopting and migrating and building into something much bigger than we currently are. And this is a journey that's been going on for many, many years, even started, before a lot of people were aware of it, with the research, thought development work that I was putting in ten years ago. Playing the long game. I suppose it's also one of those things where, like you're saying, it's not redoing the wheel, because if the wheel works, why would you change it? But it's taking the best parts and trying to put them all together in I suppose it's kind of like building a car, isn't it? You're taking the best technology, I suppose you look at, like, say, I don't know, Formula One car, isn't it? They all want to put the best technology in it, so they're taking the best parts from where people have learned things or any sort of equipment or anything like that. You're always trying to take the best bits, but it's having all those best bits together rather than having them as separate things. Yes. My idea is more certainly in the development stage of everything is to forget money and finance, which is obviously plays a massive part, but I feel that it restricts the development of the idea by how much you were going to charge. How we're going to make money from this? How are we going to make money from that? Well, in essence, online, if you've got the audience, the participation, the visibility, money will come if it needs to come. Like Facebook, for example, nonprofit making is a social platform for people to communicate. Migrated now into vast money making organizations. So it's LinkedIn early stages, just a network, so it's but not an employment network. So it's really the stage development of something, which is technical stage development. So taking modules and then developing these modules in a correct manner, almost like a jigsaw, where you do work on one piece, finish it, start work on the next piece, that then joins into another part until eventually you produce your jigsaw. And then you can start thinking about finance, money and many things, manpower, development, demand, workers that we're going to need government support throughout the world. Bear in mind the ideas that we have are ethical worthy of support and all the governments in the world want more people in work, regardless of where they are. They're just less of a burden on society. And this is where we're going to be pushing things. We've made a lot of work has been put in, a lot of progress has been made, it's still at the start of the journey, so it has been interesting and it's going to continue to be interested in, like you say, it's laying the foundations. And the thing is with the online world, I suppose in relative terms to where we were many years ago, to where we are now, a lot has changed. But equally, in the grand scheme of things, it's been a long journey and actually it's taken a long time to get to these points and like you say, it's combining stuff that you would never have thought, I don't know, 1520 years ago, that, yeah, like you say, people using their own cars and things like that. And it's crazy the connection between real world and online and how the relationship can be there, but also it can be equally very different. And some of the points you've made in terms of where we currently are on our journey kind of leads me nicely on to where we are and what we currently have. And some of the things that we feel here at Skills Provision are some of our strong selling points and ways that we are doing things differently. And the first thing I want to talk about is profiles. Now, listeners out there, if you've not had a chance to look at the website, please do visit www dot skills for the main international site. We do also have a UK and European site and have a look at job seeker profiles. Now these profiles are one of our probably best what's the correct word? I'm trying to look for our unique selling points. Compared to other agencies or other recruiters or other businesses out there that maybe are operating in the same space, profiles are a way of job seekers being able to demonstrate their skills. So each employer, each candidate, sorry, will register on our site and create a profile. Now, this profile is a way of saying to employers out there, hey, look, I'm looking for a job. I'm looking for work. Here are my skills. And gives them a chance to demonstrate some information about their experience, a chance for them to pitch themselves. And it also allows employers then, from the other perspectives, to be looking in and seeing the type of candidates that are out there. Now, our database is quickly growing. We are breaking records every month in terms of the number of new registrations and Pete can tell you a bit more about that in a second. But for me, from a recruiter's point of view, the profiles and the reason that they really help us when it comes to placement is a worker taking the time to create a profile shows they're invested in the want and desire to get work the way that it is set up. All candidates must create a profile for them to be considered for any opportunities to work for. So for us, it's us kind of acting as a first port of screening and speaking to candidates to ensure that they are serious about wanting to work. Something that Pete mentioned on earlier is with an international kind of feel and an international journey that we are on, everyone's profile is displayed and has to be created in English because it is the most universally used language with amongst our employers. So even candidates from the very low level in perhaps more unskilled, and I say that in quotation marks an unskilled type of role where English is not something that they're necessarily going to be using. They take the time and effort to make this profile so it helps and gives a chance to showcase that even those where English is not something they're normally using that they are able and willing to give it a go and that kind of relays back to the point of people being proactive and trying to better themselves and better their situations. Now profiles themselves, Pete came up with the idea so he can kind of tell you a little bit more about his thinking behind on a deeper level. The reason for profiles, yes, to be visible online you need plenty of content. The content needs to be unique. So industrial level content, biosaving profiles, when people cannot copy and paste into the fields, we produce strength to the website and then utilize that back to assist the people that are assisting us. They register, they help the site, we find them work through the visibility, so it's all circular effects taking place. The profiles we have on the website are still at a fairly basic level and will continue to develop and we will always have a free option, but there's going to be premium membership where you can join, pay monthly subscription and have an enhanced profile of a lot more visibility ability to add video and many different things. Where a profile is fantastic is it complements the CV? Resume isn't a replacement. A CV is a historical working document that doesn't say a lot about a person's personality, interests, hobbies and such like. It's more I've done this job, I've done that job, I've done this job, which is fine and listed with qualifications obviously helps, but it does give a one dimensional picture. We have profiles, zillions of them and a massive amount of profiles that's continually growing and growing at some speed. Where opportunity be that visa, employee sponsored visas, European work, overseas work, Middle East. It gives people opportunity. We expect people to follow the rules they have to do to pass the validation process, which is fairly straight, and then when they're in, it's then over to us to see where there's opportunity to place these people, offer employees to visit the site, look in. Wow. These guys have got I think last time we looked at 6300 engineers listed on the site. Although world screaming out for engineers. So yeah, there you go. We've got plenty of them, we've got plenty of everything, thousands of welders God knows how many salesman, project managers and we will continue to grow and eventually the main thinking behind profiles was agencies concentrate on jobs, jobs gives them candidates would apply if the jobs are seen and then money will be made from the transaction. Now, to compete with millions of agents is obviously difficult. Online I looked at alternative methods and that is utilizing the credentials and skills of the other side of the fence. The workers theoretically would become as powerful as just utilizing jobs. And yes, that is how obviously you need to move into the industrial type numbers masses millions. But it's worked, it's working, it will continue to work and it will feed everything's said earlier circular. So profiles are linked to jobs, they're linked to employers and then the employees look at the profile. So everything's sort of and the way we work internally by showcasing profiles and employers you probably write the North Francesca. An employer will get a lot more out of looking at a profile than a Word document with no portrait image, with nothing about what they do or anything. It can be quite ambiguous as to where they're actually living. Yeah, and I think something I was going to kind of interject is a bit like the whole job description versus a job advert thing, isn't it? A profile is more similar to a job advert and a CV is more similar to like a job description. One tells a story and kind of explains in detail all the ins and outs but the profile like a job advert is about selling either yourself or the job, isn't it? You're trying to attract someone to want to choose you. And there are millions of people that all done the same course, the same qualification, but it's trying to provide some individuality and trying to make them different to the person that they're applying from from somewhere else. So it's trying to offer those different characteristics and giving chance to people to express themselves, whereas in other situations they may not get that. Except, obviously, once you get to interview stage, but it's the profile of giving that chance before that and allowing people to see a bit more behind the curtain, if you will. A bit more about that person. Pretty much. So go back to the subject earlier about the network. Profiles play a massive role in the whole thing where those still at school in their last year should all have profiles and should be developing on those profiles as they continue on the education journey. They're out there. They're out there in the job market before they're available to work. And this is part and parcel of being proactive. With government support, with employer support, we could possibly major sponsorship or just off our own backs, which everything's going to happen. It probably just makes the difference of the speed it's going to be lived at in terms of our own financial state and the amount of manpower we have available but it's all coming anyway, it's just those are the factors that yes, whether your journey takes X amount of time or Y amount of time, isn't it? Yes. And the Profiles are going to play a massive role and already are playing a massive role and continue to do so. And they're just one part of the network. The courses that we're going to offer, hundred thousand courses that we're hoping to put into the system so that everyone can benefit through education and not all paid free courses, a mixture, free and paid. So we're taught the ethical all the way. Of course. We're a profit making organization, we're not a charity. We want to have a fair mix of ethics, free given a fair crack of the whip to all, including the disabled. Those just leave in prison, those that feel they don't have a chance. The low end, I have no skills but I got two arms and I can work hard. We'll give a fair crack of the wit to everyone. I think a lot of the time in employment and many look at the education, the brains, the perception of people, and less so the lower level, they're just solid grafters and that's partly where we're missing in the working environment. You need more Indians than chiefs in nearly every environment and it's giving purpose to everyone and giving everyone an opportunity, a fair chance. That's right. And that's the thing. Yeah. And being able to offer multiple different types of offering rather than a one dimensional thing increases the chances of being able to actually provide that. And I should say Profiles is one part, obviously Jobs is another and currently we have a wide variety of international opportunities available across the different websites. And Jobs for us has become something that we take real pride in. In terms of, again, from an online business perspective, all of our content that we like to put out is unique and ensuring that we're getting the maximum amount of exposure that we can when it comes to advertising and making sure that the jobs are widely visible. On an international scale, as with a lot of our roles, there is the possibility for the movement from a worker from one case or one place sorry to another, rather than it purely just being an in country hire. Jobs are something that obviously employers are attached to now. There are some changes that are coming in the future and we're quite excited about these. In terms of jobs, I don't know if you want to say anything on that, Pete, or do we want to kind of leave a little bit of mystery. We're already introducing, as you know yourself, video into the job adverts, which are going well. On the international site there are around about 600 opportunities. The job board is very powerful, very powerful indeed. In terms of virtual strength, I just said that there's a lot coming for the employer and to keep an eye out for opportunity for them because some very exciting developments will be coming certainly within the next twelve months, which if I was an employer, I'd be grasping at with both hands. Absolutely. That's very well put. I think. Don't want to give too much away and then from my perspective, being involved primarily in the placement side of things, the last kind of thing that I really want to touch on in terms of an area of real strength, I think for us is our trademark client zone. Now, the client zone for me and for my colleagues employers has been a real game changer in managing the recruitment process. So obviously there's meant multiple different types of tracking systems and things out there. But this is our own internal system. So for those out there listening, the way it works is for all of our employers, they're given a dedicated, secure private area to access all candidates that we have internally screened, shortlisted for their review. And by having them all in this client zone, it allows us to make sure that we are managing and keeping on top of those applicants as opposed to some agencies that maybe just send things by email and then you can very easily lose track of where someone is. This area has been probably the most positively, from my perspective, and maybe this is a selfish perspective, positively impacting area for me in terms of being able to say, okay, currently with Y employer, I'm here, with X employer, I need to be here. It gives me a really good way of managing the process. It's a great tool for us to communicate with the employers. So as part of our process, not only when we submit candidates do we gather the additional documentation and request a video. And with a video, this could either be an introductory video or it can be a video showcasing skills such as an example of a job that we currently have for fish processing, where we want to see nice skills demonstrated. We also provide a benchmark score to employers. Now, this is something that particularly on high volume, when you've got a lot of candidates that you're wanting your employers to view. We benchmark to give our best representation of how we feel a candidate fits with that employer's requirements. And when I say the requirements, I don't just mean have they got four years of experience? Do they have this qualification? I'm talking about the other things to take into consideration. So how have they performed in the interview, how engaged were they in the interview? Did they ask questions? Have they done their research on the position? The other thing that we very much factor in, and again, it kind of comes back to previous things, is with regards to the English language. So we provide kind of a benchmark score on how suitable someone's English is for a position. Now, a ten would be someone who is a native English speaker. Although, trust me, I've spoken to some candidates where English is not their first language and their English is better than some people, where it is their first language and providing an indication as to how we think that they score. Now, I know that firsthand I've had some really positive feedback where the employer has come to me and said, look, I totally agree with your scoring and that's always nice to hear. When you're putting that work in and you're really showcasing to the employer, you've really understood their needs and equally you've really understood a candidate's strengths, potential, weaknesses, and really being able to showcase and advocate for that candidate in the correct way. I just think it's been very good, great, excellent tool for being able to manage that process. I don't know if you have any as you're not involved in the placement side of things. Pete, from your viewpoint about the client zone. Yeah, I developed it so it started off with everything, a theoretical exercise which was actually born from something Chris was working on with cognitive assessments, which I thought had gone too far in one direction and didn't see how it would ever work. But the concept of placing everything out in a neat and tidy manner for the employer, laying everything out in front of them, everything they need to see to make good judgment calls on hiring with our own benchmark scoring in there seemed perfect. And that's how it's turning out, I guess, because it's tailored for other people. It's not tailored really for the it does help the recruiter, but it's more tailored for the employer. And when you focus more on the other side, then you can do, we've done a good job, but it's still. Early. There's still a lot to be done in the development and stage version upgrades and such like within the client zone and it will be even better in terms of the overall network, you would say that we said there are a hundred individual modules to form the whole network and the client zone is just one of those. So there needs to be 99 other things all put together and when they're all gel together and everything's aligned perfect. And probably that the client zone and profiles and some things that we are doing very, very well at this moment in time become the benchmark for everything that has to follow. Whereas it has to impress, it has to be built well. The logic has to be in place. It's not just suitable for us, it's fit for purpose. So something is there for the employer, it suits the employer. Who's there for the job seeker? It suits the job seeker a lot of the time in recruitment and why a lot of agencies, it's a strong word, but there's a lot of hate out there for recruitment agencies is down to the fact that the candidates feel that they are treated unfairly. They jump through all the hoops is asked of them, then they don't get the job. The agency can't be bothered to tell them or they do the day before they're supposed to start work. And this is we understand this, we learn from it and we want to do a hell of a lot better than everyone else. So ethics is probably right near the top of the list. Certainly my list in terms of development and when I developed the client zone, having an ethical system was one that I believed at the time of putting it together that the employer would love. And we get a lot of decent feedback, but I don't feel any negative feed. I don't know if you've had any negative feedback on it. No, I don't think so in terms of no, I think the only thing will be is like sometimes, oh, there's too many casualts, what am I supposed to do with all of these? But no, it's just been such a useful tool for both, both sides, really, a way of connecting but maintaining control from our side, the job seeker and the employer. Which kind of leads me on to the point you were saying about this is all part of the journey, about other things that are coming soon. What is coming soon? What can we tell our listeners out there? What do we feel like they are ready to hear? Are we ready to share or are there things that we are wanting to keep Kosop out? Because in an online world as similar to a traditional but an online world, it's super competitive and we're wanting to maximize our uniqueness and our individuality. What things are we willing to share? Right, so coming soon, multilayered offerings for employers and job seekers where there'll be a mixture of free and paid options, where you can take advantage of the systems we put in place. The virtual stone for the website, the overall visibility with the aim of if it could be the job seeker, enhancing, improving their chances of being seen and being employed for the employer, whatever they're after. Which our remedy could be. Filling slots of it is the initial thing we help with. So yeah, there's a lot coming in this area and a lot of it will be quite a games for us as well. Where we're going to be going down the automation road there's multilayered offering a smidge of AI, which is going to be great for the text, improving our algorithms of automated matching and such like, which is crazy complicated and not something I want to dwell on certainly on this podcast courses going to be massive, massive and just fantastic opportunities for everyone. Even though it's not employed. Obviously we would like government sponsorship, assistance, all this, but it's not vital they'll help us on our journey in terms of speed and what we can deliver. But it's all coming anyway, the further development of the network, which may never be finished because you're always like Google develop, they run, some are very minor, very minor, not even worth reporting on, but they tweak their algorithm 2300 times a year. So you say as a business it's never like finished, it's never set that's right. Well, like you say, everything is on a circular journey, isn't it? And it doesn't mean that just because it's not like you jump off at the last stop and that's it. Oh, you jump off at the last stop, well, I better jump on the next train and come back around because things constantly change, it's constantly evolving. What you did one day is going to be different to what you do the next and there's outside influences and then there's internal influences. It's probably trying to the coming soon part is trying to develop the network through obviously modern technology. It's all going to be website driven cord software, we're developing software, we're developing concepts, all sorts, build our own algorithms, but it's more utilizing top to bottom and then molding that into something that we can push forward. So Chris may have an idea that he's had 2030 years ago that he'd like to see one of his what was the Personalized Information Center, to take elements of this and develop on it. And some things we dismiss our because we can't do that, it's just no way. And obviously we've got to be also understanding and protective security, holding data, online payments and then personal data. I think it's something that's important. We don't want floating around banks and all this kind of stuff. I've just founded a disk with 90 million bits of information on all the people and I think like you said, a lot of this is driven by the online side of things and the online side, and online in general for anywhere around the world, is such a big point. But at the core of it still has to maintain the people that you are trying to support. Be that job seekers, be that clients, because you could have something that has all the bells and whistles, but if people don't buy in, it can be really challenging. I mean, the amount of apps and stuff, now that you see that come out, they're popular for five minutes and then they're gone. We're building something that we believe will last and will continue to impact and continue to keep people connected and moving that forward. We're here for the long term and the long what's the right word? We're looking for longevity rather than a short term success. Yeah. It was put to me by someone that works in the British Government or worked for British Government, that what we were looking at doing was very similar to LinkedIn, to which I challenged and said, there are a lot of similarities. We haven't replicated anything, but the difference is we're dealing with people that are actually looking for work. So all areas and then they were like, Right, yes, well, correct. So it's sort of like live bodies as opposed to LinkedIn, which is anybody? Yeah, and that's the difference. We're looking to assist our assistant throughout the entire employment journey, which begins before you even leave school and may end with your pension. We will be looking at financial services, additions and all this kind of stuff long after you've retired. So it's sort of a lifetime, probably from about 1415 years old, and then for the rest of your life, we will be a part of it. We're going to be there to assist, to develop a shoulder to cry on, someone to give a leg up, and the more people we can place. As you've been out there to the factories where we're putting a lot of people in, you've seen firsthand the positive nature of our work in terms of people's lives. You're seeing that 100%. And yes, obviously anyone in business would be naive to say there's not an element of obviously. Being financially successful is great, but knowing and receiving that reward from people saying, look, you've helped me achieve my dream. Or you've helped me get to something that I never thought I was going to get to. Those things are what stays with you for the long term and the betterment of life. And when you're in a position that you could help with that, you should be taking full advantage of that because money only lasts for so long. But that feeling of you changing someone's life that will never leave, knowing that you have been a positive influence for them, is the greatest reward. And it leads me on to, obviously all these things are coming soon, but what have been or what continues to be the challenges there for us now, one thing from my perspective is in terms of for employers, for job seekers, is having people buy into the actual want and understanding of what we are trying to do. From your perspective, Pete, because you're dealing with the online side, how would you say in layman's terms, so for those of us that we're not technical first, why would you be telling job seekers, employers, to be buying into what we're doing? I'd rather deal with it. The question is probably in two part staff. First, the challenges that we face ourselves, and these are many technical evolution. I said to people, right, you need to do this, you need to fill in this form, you need to do it in this order guidelines so they can be followed a week later. I'm saying no. That's wrong. But you said that last week. You told me that. Yeah. I'm feeling that could be a bit of a personal one there, Pete, because I'm sure that's probably leaving me. That's challenged you a few times on that. Many have, yeah. And it's this changing people don't realize that what they're working in is a fluid part of a fluid system that's continually evolving and will continue to evolve for a long, long time yet. And the industrial revolution type thing, it's the mortar car, the developments of the motor vehicle, and it's still running on today. And all this kind of stuff is technical evolution is a big challenge in so much as the how do we do things, how do we change, how do we develop version upgrades? Great. Yeah. To what? And so planning becomes a big part of combating evolution. If you're well planned, well prepared, developed right, people around you, you can get through these things. Management of growth, something that we both know full well is that it's just more, as in more work. Just another little job for you and just another 20 little jobs for you. And you're like, my team's not that big, but the growth continues. So the team has to grow, you know, yourself, developing your own team, that as it continues to grow, you're going to have to develop and train more people. And it's just this circular thing of if you're prepared and you know what you're doing and you are structured in your approach, it commands growth. You can't wing it. You cannot win growth, no way. It just implodes on itself. The management of process key. We all need a shoulder to cry on. We're all under pressure. We all need to be able to be kicking ass of people that can't be bothered producing poor quality work. So management up and down the scale, vital, going at the right pace, something I have challenges with the developers, getting them to go to a pace where they make less mistakes that produce quality work and overburden and pushing too hard. Training and development already covered. But it's so key that we don't underestimate the value of our own learning and developing on this, our own skills. Oh, I'm at the top of the tree, people are working for me. I don't have to develop nothing. Rubbish. We all need to continue to develop. And then probably more importantly, and which comes back to answering the question is what the people is getting everyone to buy in for people to look at us, what we're doing, how we're doing it, our ethos, our ethics, the whole Shabang skills provision and everything that surrounds him is involved in it, is getting people to buy in. We're getting employees to buy in good. We're getting job seekers to buy in by the Zillion good. But we need our own staff to buy in. We need everything. Everything is all about buying in. The more people we get to buy in to where we want to go, governments, we need government support, we need them to buy in so that we can deliver what we want to deliver, which is revolutionary product based on a simple concept disruptive software that can change lives for the better. Because as you know yourself, if you went to university, you did a degree and then you realized much later may have put a bit more thought into that because it wasn't the wisest choice. Now you're not alone millions of first round because they're having to make at a young age, they're having to make decisions that are like, I'm only ever going to make a bad decision, I'm too young. I was going to say the pressure that's put on you when you're young to make a decision that impacts the rest of your life. It's crazy when you think about it, isn't it? That's what I want to get into. You can't stop people making bad decisions, but you can give them more information. And I was going to say and that's something that like it's a fair few years ago, but not miles and miles ago, that like when you're having those conversations about, okay, based on this information, we think you're going to go into X, Y and Z or here's the Opportunities University or this. And it is just unfortunately, I suppose with everything, isn't there? There's a level of inconsistency about the information that can be available and accessible to people at that time. And it's trying to get people the most connected and the most informed that they can be. It's the people that are doing the advising. Do they know the workplace? Are they up to speed themselves? Do they fully know the options? Or is it just a matter of, well, I just work at the school and I've been regurgitating the information. Yeah, just regurgitating the same crap that's been spoken to year after year after year after thousands of people sent out it's to leave it to the individual, which is fair enough, but we want to combat to use modern technology to do away with this just all right. It's almost kind of I suppose, trying to think of an analogy in a way, is that we're almost kind of like the journey is a bit like, isn't it? Like having a fat NAB. You've got one route that you're trying to get to wherever that may be your end goal. So whether that's first time employment or you're wanting to progress your career, okay, well, I'm putting in my destination, but how do I get there? Okay, there are three routes that have been suggested which route you're going to take, but it's being informed about all those steps involved in taking those routes that we're trying to kind of offer up that guidance to show if you take this option, here's your potential. If you choose option B, there's this potential that might happen. And trying to help steer. We'd never want to try and take over anything. That's not our way of doing things. We want individuals to maintain their individuality, but we are purely here to try and offer them assistance and support. Oh, definitely, yes. The problem what we have is that everything's always been done one way. We follow our parents, they follow their parents and all this kind of stuff, whereas modern technology allows the way we're looking at setting up the business, it's almost like we're forcing checks on people. They'll give in stronger alternatives. You're breaking them up. Yes, breaking them all. And that's a whole other cattle of fish, isn't it? Because to change the norm but that's what this software is all about. I mean, let me go back to Uber. People would be falling about, rolling around the floor, cracking ribs, laughing so hard if you said, I'm going to set up a global business where people use their car as a taxi. Look, it's almost stupid when you think about it, but it isn't so stupid today. Neither is a lot of this thought provoking, disruptive software, which does make people think outside the box. My biggest, going back to the biggest, what can we tell people? What can we change? Which is really strange. And one of my biggest aims is to do away with fees for recruitment. Totally. Which will shake up the world of recruitment agencies. Which is a bit weird to say that you're working on the removal of fees as a concept when we actually are involved in that ourselves. But it's true that's what I'm working on. A radical new way of placing people into employments that doesn't involve the payments of fees. Interesting. It is. It's a unique and different way of doing something that, like you say, no one's doing. Pioneering is not an unreasonable term to use and it's how successful something will be. You never know in theory. The theory is strong. We're seeing the positive results and there are tangibles that we're seeing the positives of, like profiles, jobs, clients, in, et cetera. But you never truly know how something and how successful something is going to be. I don't imagine that when Zuckerberg set up Facebook, he knew that straight away, a month, six months, a year after it, that he was like, do you know what? Yeah. In however many years time, this is what it's going to be. From where they are now to where they were. That's one hell of a journey. And we're on our own journey. Yeah. I think one of the things that serves me well, and I'm not sure I can't think of any, been certain things that have not worked well, not working at all. I don't believe there's been any. This is down to being fair with yourself and honest when you do the research, when you put things together in a conceptual development. Conceptual design and development is obviously something that one of my main jobs that I put in, is developing, theoretically, putting things together. As long as you're true to yourself, as in you ask the right questions and you're not sky blue with everything, oh, this would be fine. Yeah. Everyone will just pay. Will they pay what they're paying for? Why would they pay? Can they afford it? What you're giving them in return? So it's almost like you've got to try and stress test your own ideas properly. And if they can live up to the hard scrutiny and trying to break things, to be honest, theory, mentally, I do it through visualization, which is a bit weird, but that's how it goes. Visually, playing chess with someone, if I can't break it, and I really do try hard to break it, and I think, well, it's got a fair chance. And this is how things are now in place, have got there because I couldn't break them, I couldn't break the client zone. When I worked out as a concept, having listened to Chris, speaking to someone about some software on cognitive assessments, that I have my own ideas on this type of subject, put them together, could break it. The only thing that's wrong with that system, which is quite minor, is the fact that some employees don't know how to log in. You're always going to be combating with challenges like that, aren't you, in terms of things? And it's beat that you just say, well, yeah, right, you're right. What do you want me to do? Come down and log in for me. You know what I mean? I think that's true in terms of something that is a strength of yours that I think a lot of people out there will struggle with it. It's removing yourself from yourself, in a way, isn't it? And it's looking at it from the other people's perspectives and trying to see how they may view something with no emotion. It's like just black and white, or someone with about 50 different hats and trying to put on a different hat each time. When you're looking at something, hat A is for the employer, hat b is for the job seeker hat, C is for the recruiter hat, D is for someone else. It's trying to look at it from the many sides that there are involved in most processes. There's very few, probably. No, none. In fact, I can think of processes that just involve one party. Yeah. I think it's playing a binary game with yourself with no emotion. Yeah. Yes. What do you do in there? You take the emotion out. That's the hardest part, removing yourself from yourself in terms of because we all have preconceived ideas on things, so those preconceptions, if they're false or wrong or incorrect, slightly out. Well, your developments are going to be the same. So you can't go into anything with a preconceived idea, which means everyone's feedback is valuable because no one knows. It's almost like I put something together, but then when you look at what I put together, you say, yeah, but you took ideas from there. Yeah. Yeah. And there, yeah, chris had a meeting with such that's right, yes. And then it sort of joining the dots, which is probably the difficult part, I would imagine. And then having to document for the developers to build and then just keep it on top of it, making sure it works and all this kind of stuff. And then continually like the client's own developing on it because there's always because that's collaboration software, the collaboration between the recruiter and the employer. What else can they benefit from but not what else can they benefit from in the conventional thinking time, along the lines of what no one's thought of, or it's not out there, so you're not replicating something that's already in place, but somewhere else. And then benchmark scoring. We benchmark quite a lot of hefty amounts within the client zone. That idea is not taken from anywhere else. It's like no one else is benchmark scoring. Interviews levels. We can do skill tests, we can do everything that's purely unique. And this is where we're strong, having unique ideas and then bringing them to reality. Because when they're good enough, the other side, the employer, the job seeker, they're going to be blown away. And not enough people have seen our client zone and booked interviews with you and your team, so they can see all this stuff in the flesh and like, wow. Yeah. And that's why, as part of our process, when any employer inquires, we'd like to show them all of our bells and whistles. We want them to see the process that's involved, because it is important that rather than just saying, all right, you're going to come to us. Here's a candidate. We haven't done anything with it. Just have a look. We want to show them that we care, we take their inquiry seriously and we're here to support them. And equally, from a candidate management point of view, that we're on hand to be supporting the candidates, guiding them through the processes whatever those processes may be. Very much so, yeah. Are there any other points that you want to raise? Kind of summarizing today's podcast in terms of Skills Provision, the International Employment Network, from my perspective, I know we've probably used this, I feel like I should have called this the Journey podcast. It is a journey. A journey is never straightforward, especially if you rely on a sat NAV that's a little bit dodgy, send you down a road that's no longer there, or something like that. So it's a continual one and a continued journey for improvement and wanting the betterment of ourselves as a company, but a betterment for the life of job seekers internationally and to support employers internationally in whatever way we can with a diverse range of offerings. So, not being a one dimensional, there's this. You take it, you leave it. We're wanting to offer more to both sides. Anything else from your side? I've got two points, that's all. Firstly, I'd like to thank all those who have helped us in the past who are no longer here working on the project. Long list of people sarah, Leslie, him, Jeanette and a host of others that helped us initially get the show on the road and then push it forward. And I'm very thankful for the work and support that we got from everyone. That's an important message, because it's very easy to forget those that helped us when we were in most need at times. And finally, I guess, in the end, want to be judged by the audience, employers and job seekers, not by finance, because we are doing well financially, we'll continue to do well, they just grow. But that's also one dimensional. I don't want to be judged by finance, I want to be judged by what the employees, the job seekers think and our support that could be offered to those judged by the wider impact, not a single measurement. Yes. And I think that's a nice way to end it. So for all of our listeners out there, just a reminder, you can listen to us on Spotify, Apple Music, Google Podcasts. It's also live on YouTube. It is also on the skills Provision international website. There is a subheading for podcasts. Please do take time to listen to our previous episodes. We've covered some interesting topics and on any of those platforms where you do have the ability, please like share, follow, subscribe, tell your friends, tell your colleagues, we want to be seen, we want to be heard, we want to change lives. So for me, Francesco, it's goodbye, Amy, Pete, goodbye and we'll catch you all in the next episode. Thank you. Take care. See you all soon.